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Flexable Tools, disk, culavator and seeders

Forum Overview >> Farming Simulator 15

CategoryFarming Simulator 15
Created13.05.2015 01:49


Albert Lancaster (ridgerunner) 13.05.2015 02:14
OK in 2013 my good friend JRBrown brought into FS the flexible john Deere 2410 and taught me how to add flex to my Case 500t.
Later I went on to make the 2410 five section and upgraded my Case 500T for the Big Borgault five section seeder.
More Realistic John Deere 2410 Chisel Plow
http://americaneaglesmodding.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=748
MR_Case500T_AD_Pluse with FLEX
http://americaneaglesmodding.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=806
MR_Borgaultx5_fold
http://americaneaglesmodding.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=900

My problem is in order to get these to work as realistically as we could, they required 8-18 components.
You have the hitch, main each folding part [wing1 and wing 2 right/left} and to get the 180 rotations for the dolly wheels, they needed to be there own component as well. IE, the component section of the MR_Borgaultx5_fold
FS2013 xml
<components count="12">
<component1 centerOfMass="0 1.5 1" solverIterationCount="4" realMassWanted="2" /> main
<component2 centerofmass="0 0 0" solverIterationCount="4" realMassWanted="0.15" />draw bar
<component3 centerofmass="0 0 0" solverIterationCount="4" realMassWanted="0.15" />m wheel
<component4 centerofmass="0 0 0" solverIterationCount="4" realMassWanted="0.15" />m wheel
<component5 centerofmass="0 0 0" solverIterationCount="4" realMassWanted="0.15" />right wheel 1
<component6 centerofmass="0 0 0" solverIterationCount="4" realMassWanted="0.15" />lift wheel 2
<component7 centerofmass="-2 0 0" solverIterationCount="40" realMassWanted="0.5" />right fold
<component8 centerofmass="2 0 0" solverIterationCount="40" realMassWanted="0.5" />lift fold

<component9 centerofmass="0 0 0" solverIterationCount="4" realMassWanted="0.15" />right wheel 2
<component10 centerofmass="0 0 0" solverIterationCount="4" realMassWanted="0.15" />lift wheel 2
<component11 centerofmass="-1 0 0" solverIterationCount="40" realMassWanted="0.5" />right fold 2
<component12 centerofmass="1 0 0" solverIterationCount="40" realMassWanted="0.5" />lift fold 2

<joint component1="0" component2="1" index="0>11" rotLimit="15 0 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>draw bar
<joint component1="0" component2="2" index="0>7" rotLimit="0 180 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>mwheel
<joint component1="0" component2="3" index="0>8" rotLimit="0 180 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>mwheel
<joint component1="6" component2="4" index="6>2" rotLimit="0 180 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>right wheel 1
<joint component1="7" component2="5" index="7>2" rotLimit="0 180 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>left wheel 2
<joint component1="0" component2="6" index="0>4" rotLimit="0 0 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>right fold 1
<joint component1="0" component2="7" index="0>5" rotLimit="0 0 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>left fold 1

<joint component1="10" component2="8" index="10>2" rotLimit="0 180 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>right wheel 1
<joint component1="11" component2="9" index="11>2" rotLimit="0 180 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>left wheel 2
<joint component1="6" component2="10" index="6>34" rotLimit="0 0 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>right fold 2
<joint component1="7" component2="11" index="7>7" rotLimit="0 0 0" transLimit="0 0 0" breakable="false"/>left fold 2
</components>

Trying to get these BEASTS, converted with the 6 component limitations of the 2015 game engine kills the over all realistic functionality of the mods.

Even the case 500T. Once i get it cut down to 6 component's, I'm stuck with two of my dolly wheels being rigid instead of having a free 180 rotation.

So is there some way that when you guys release the final patch 1.3 that you can remove this limitation from the Game, or provide me with a lua work around so I can get these flexible field tools in game for the 2015 community.
https://youtu.be/FebJKT5745Q



Albert Lancaster (ridgerunner) 14.05.2015 18:35
Wow.
I post a real issue and get completely ignored, while others post simple issues that if they had half a brain could resolve themselves just from reading there log text. Get patronized.

Ether you guys at giants don't understand the need for flexible tools, or
just don;t give a damn, or
have no idea whats so ever on how to fix this issue.

Whatever it is it would be nice to at least be given a heads up as to what, if anything your doing, or thinking about resolving this issue for me.

Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 15.05.2015 09:17
Hi,

well, we can't answer every question immediately.
So you might have to be patient ... sometimes.

First a general thought:
You don't have to make a component for a rotating wheel.
Have a look at the default vehicles.
They use the speedRotatingParts not only to rotate wheels in their moving/rolling direction but also around their 'steering axis'.
e.g. the New Holland Roll Belt 150

What is the exact error message in your log?

Actually there is no six component limitation .... check the Krone Swadro ... it has 10 components!
Poettinger Hit 1214T has 7 components
Poettinger Top 1252 has 6 components

Finally, try to remove all the entries from the xml file which are no longer needed (e.g. MR related) to keep the files as clean and clear as possible

Cheers,
Emil





Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 17.05.2015 00:30
@Emil, hello

What is the diference betwen using "versatileYRot="true" in the wheels section and using the "speedRotatingParts"?

I'm trying to achieve this kind of wheel steering for a similar machine

http://www.ar.all.biz/img/ar/catalog/123478.jpeg

Thanks!




Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 18.05.2015 07:57
Hi,

for the wheels you can use a "normal steering mode", "steeringAngle mode" and the "versatileYRot mode".
The versatile mode is not connected to what the attacherVehicle does ... in this case the rotation is calculated based on the positional change of the wheel.

The speedRotatingParts are "dummy wheels", so to say.
There is no physical impact.
They just rotate based on the positional change of the node and their attributes.

In your case ... as I understand the machine right now .... it can be lifted and it then runs on only the two wheels on the back, right?
Seems like you need some real/physical wheels here.

Cheers,
Emil


Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 18.05.2015 14:36
Thanks for your answer! In fact te machine have 4 wheels with the same steering back and front. (in working mode the back wheels are fixed and front rotate and in transport mode the wheels are turned 90 degres and the machine is attached to the tractor from one side)

I wonder if this is posible or if it's a dead end
Here some images:

http://www.rednh.com.ar/uploaded_images/6f8f20f1f324250edb4edee4a50a757e.jpg

http://www.valorsoja.com/wp-content/uploads/SembradoraGherardi1-1024x768.jpg

http://media-sa.viva-images.com/vivastreet_ar/clad/08/a/113846486/large/3.jpg?dt=055f6f17e9d884c62ac3034e26184185




Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 19.05.2015 07:18
Hi,

ah, I see ... interesting machine :)

Yes, it is possible.

The question now is what would be the best way to make it really work

a) you could use more than one component

b) use only one component.
But in this case you would need a custom script to adjust the freedom of rotation for the wheels based on its state (work vs street)

Cheers,
Emil

Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 19.05.2015 14:41
Hi,
Thats my problem. Scrips are out of the table because I don't know how to make it. So I need to do it with the default things.
For the selection betwen the attachers (work or street) I was thinking to use the self transported cutters as example.
If the 4 wheels move freely maybe it could work
What do you thing? :)

Cheers!

Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 20.05.2015 12:29
Hi,

yes that should work.

By using xml animations you can also adjust the rotation limits of joints.

Cheers,
Emil

Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 20.05.2015 22:34
Could you show me an example of that in a default machine?

Thanks!

Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 21.05.2015 08:02
Hi,

the horsch Terrano 5FM for example has the following line:

<part componentJointIndex="0" startTime="0" endTime="0.3" startRotLimit="0 90 0" endRotLimit="0 0 0" />

in its moveSupport animation

Cheers,
Emil

Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 22.05.2015 02:20
I don't think I'm understanding that line.
It supposed to limit the rotation of the attacher taking into account if the support is folded or not? Then if the support is unfolded the attached is rigid to front and if the support is folded the attacher can move freely?
sounds like I'm getting it way too wrong


Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 22.05.2015 07:31
Hi,

yes, the line controls the rotation limit of the "component joint" (!) which connects the "attacher bar" to the "main frame".

Cheers,
Emil


Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 28.05.2015 05:06
Hello Emil,

I'm making it work little by little, but I don't know why always my joints look like they are hanging by a thread. Like if the joints were very weak.
I mean, if I change the rotLimit of a Joint, the components start to look like if they were free to move in every direction and every axe. The joints doesn't look "strong" like the ones in the default vehicles.
I don't know if I'm being clear.
If you understand what I mean, do you have any advice to make my joints work better?
And how can I do to make the rotLimit of a joint work better? I mean if I set it "0 90 0"
but the component rotate more than 90 degrees.

Cheers!

Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 28.05.2015 08:18
Hi,

yes, I got you.

One option to improve the stability of a joint is to adjust the mass of the components which the joint connects.
The joint will be more stable if the masses are more equal to each other.

For the rotation limit you might take into consideration that the given value is used for + and - directions, so technically you would have a range of 180° in the example given by you.

Please try this first.
If nothing helps there are some more options which could be applied. But they are not really necessary, at least as far as I see it right now.

Cheers,
Emil

J Bartsch (Jbartsch) 13.08.2015 16:46
Hello. Trying to get this 5 section air drill converted over
The only error I have is about physics too many rigid components 6 allowable.
So if the game is doesn't have limitations on this why do I get an error like this?
I can buy it in game then it as soon as I get out of menu game crashes.
I read that the moddesc versions can get around this limitation. Don't know what the moddesc versions all mean or how high the version number can go. Thx

Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 14.08.2015 08:07
Hi,

the modDesc version is a value used to declare which version of farming simulator can handle that mod.

The highest value is currently 23.
It was introduced with patch 1.3

So, what is the exact error message?
Could you please post it.

Cheers,
Emil

J Bartsch (Jbartsch) 15.08.2015 15:45
Hello. The one and ONLY error I have is exactly this...
" Error (physics): Adding to many rigid bodies to a vehicle.
Maximum is 6."

Like I mentioned before this implement has 12 rigid bodies. Worked in fs13. It was a more realistic model.
That's why if the game is not limited not sure why I get this.
I purchase the implement in game then simply crashes game once out of the store menu.
Hopefully u shed some light on this error. Thx.

Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 17.08.2015 08:37
Hi,

there is a limitation of components with wheels.
That's why the error message is printed.
So you can only add six components with wheels to your vehicle, but the number of components without wheels should be unlimited.

However, I bet you can reduce the number of components, because it is possible to adjust the wheels position and their radius dynamically.

From my own experience I can tell you that there's always a way to reduce the number of components, which you should definitely try to do, because a vehicle with too many components is likely to behave unstable in the physics simulation.

Cheers,
Emil

J Bartsch (Jbartsch) 17.08.2015 15:21
Hello. Thx for the reply. At least I understand what the limitation is now. I will try to delete the rigid wheels and dynamically load them in that way. It was also suggested to make the wheels child compound in another forum. Thx

Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 02.05.2016 02:46
Hello Emil,

I started againg the old mod project that I asked for help about the joints in this thread.
I tried your advise about the joints:

"Emil Drefers - GIANTS Software 28.05.2015 08:18
Hi,

yes, I got you.

One option to improve the stability of a joint is to adjust the mass of the components which the joint connects.
The joint will be more stable if the masses are more equal to each other.

For the rotation limit you might take into consideration that the given value is used for + and - directions, so technically you would have a range of 180° in the example given by you.

Please try this first.
If nothing helps there are some more options which could be applied. But they are not really necessary, at least as far as I see it right now.

Cheers,
Emil"

But I haven get good results (with the "strong" of the joints). I tried dfferent configurations of mass and center of mass and didn't work

Here are some pics to show a little about my problem (it's just a portotype to make it work before make the real model, so it's basicaly a grey box for now :D ).

https://imageshack.com/i/po9r3NgUp

https://imageshack.com/i/pmLaXM5Xp

https://imageshack.com/i/potI8B7Aj

https://imageshack.com/i/poJfSO7xp

Have any other advise to make the joints work better (stronger)?


Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 02.05.2016 07:35
Hi,

it's all abou this problem here:
http://imageshack.com/i/potI8B7Aj
right?

Can you show us what rotationLimits you use?
For me it looks like the "wheel object/component" is allowed to rotate around more than one axis, correct?

Cheers,
Emil


Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 02.05.2016 13:34
Tanks for your answer.
I'm not on my pc right now. But I remember that the rot limits for the 4 joints of the wheels are "0 180 0" in order to te collisions can rotate freely on the Y axe. It should work like a supermarket cart. Normaly it works ok, the problems comes when you start or stop moving the tractor. It's like the wheels are too attached to the ground and the joint has to fight between the wheels and the tractor pulling.


Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 03.05.2016 06:33
Hi,

well you can adjust the mass of wheels.
Maybe that helps, but somehow I doubt that except you used extremly large values for that attribute.

Could you show us the complete entry in your xml for one of the corresponding joints?
And what weights do the components have, namely the main component and the small one for the wheel(s)?

Cheers,
Emil

Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 04.05.2016 01:46
Hello,

I have tried lowering the mass of the wheels, but didn't work.

The mod have 7 components. As you can see in this image:
https://imageshack.com/i/plgSJ2LXj

The joints are this (I tried to upload the full xml file but I don't know a host for that):

<components count="7">
<component1 centerOfMass="0 1 0" solverIterationCount="30" />
<component2 centerOfMass="0 0 2" solverIterationCount="30" />
<component3 centerOfMass="0 0 1.7" solverIterationCount="30" />
<component4 centerOfMass="0 0 0" solverIterationCount="130" />
<component5 centerOfMass="0 0 0" solverIterationCount="130" />
<component6 centerOfMass="0 0 0" solverIterationCount="130" />
<component7 centerOfMass="0 -0.5 -0.1" solverIterationCount="130" />
<joint component1="0" component2="1" index="1>2" rotLimit="60 0 0" transLimit="0 0 0" />
<joint component1="0" component2="2" index="2>2" rotLimit="60 0 0" transLimit="0 0 0" />
<joint component1="0" component2="3" index="0>1" rotLimit="0 180 0" transLimit="0 0 0" />
<joint component1="0" component2="4" index="0>2" rotLimit="0 180 0" transLimit="0 0 0" />
<joint component1="0" component2="5" index="0>3" rotLimit="0 180 0" transLimit="0 0 0" />
<joint component1="0" component2="6" index="0>4" rotLimit="0 180 0" transLimit="0 0 0" />
<collisionPair component1="1" component2="2" enabled="true" />
<collisionPair component1="1" component2="3" enabled="true" />
<collisionPair component1="1" component2="4" enabled="true" />
<collisionPair component1="1" component2="5" enabled="true" />
<collisionPair component1="1" component2="6" enabled="true" />
<collisionPair component1="2" component2="3" enabled="false" />
<collisionPair component1="2" component2="4" enabled="false" />
<collisionPair component1="2" component2="5" enabled="false" />
<collisionPair component1="2" component2="6" enabled="false" />
<collisionPair component1="3" component2="4" enabled="false" />
<collisionPair component1="3" component2="5" enabled="false" />
<collisionPair component1="3" component2="6" enabled="false" />
<collisionPair component1="4" component2="5" enabled="false" />
<collisionPair component1="4" component2="6" enabled="false" />
<collisionPair component1="5" component2="6" enabled="false" />
</components>

The mod will be a seeder. That has 4 wheels like a supermarket cart. It has two modes: working and transport (like the biggest case combine header)

In working mode it is pulled (with the tractor) from the attacher of the component 2 (Barra), and the components 4 and 5 will rotate freely and the components 6 and 7 will stay fixed.

In transport mod, it is pulled from the attacher on the component 3 (Enganche_1), the components 5 and 6 will rotate freely and the components 4 and 7 will stay fixed (but rotated 90º from the position of the pic).

What I have noticed is that in working mode the components of the wheels works fine, but in transport mode (beeing pulled from component 3 (Enganche_1)) is when the joints get weak.

What I have thought is maybe it have to do with the axes of the main body collision, since in working mode it move through its Z axe and in transport mode it is pulled from its X axe.

Could it be that the main body collision, being pulled through its X axe, does some kind of resistance to the movement? and then making the joints of the wheels fighting between the wheels and the tractor?

Here are some pics when you can see the wheights of the components:

https://imageshack.com/i/plgSJ2LXj

https://imageshack.com/i/plDmRheaj

https://imageshack.com/i/plU2LmqFj

https://imageshack.com/i/pnssjKALj

BTW is there any rules about which component should have the transform group that will be the joint?

here is a video where you can see how this kind of seeders work.

https://youtu.be/AYGvA4ptaFM?list=PL8-GPCRn74cj5fYefJ6eyzYFWxDPWnr7S

Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 04.05.2016 07:05
Hi,

you could use pastebin.com to upload your .xml

Concerning the distribution of the masses you can try to make the main body (component 1) much lighter and the components with the wheels much heavier.
A joint will work best if the two bodies have nearly the same mass.
Well that would give your tool a unrealistic mass distribution but it is worth trying it, I would say.

The real problem might occur in the animation from transport to work mode, if I understand the situation correctly.

Just post the complete .xml at pastebin and I will check if I can find any reason for the named behavior.

Cheers,
Emil

Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 04.05.2016 16:44
Hello,
The xml still doesn't have the animations. But it could be something related to the others sections.
I will upload the file as soon as I get home.
Thanks a lot!
Cheers

Edit: here is the xml file http://pastebin.com/e9CbzhMm

Edit2: I tried changing the mass and it works a lot better now.

About the animations:

I'm going to use this (that you recomended before) and I think it could work:

componentJointIndex, like this:


<animation name="moveSupport">
<part node="1>3" startTime="0" endTime="0.3" startTrans="0 -0.518 1.749" endTrans="0 1 1.749" />

<part componentJointIndex="1" startTime="0" duration="0.2" endRotLimit="0 0 0" />
</animation>

-This atribute (componentJointIndex) woks with any animation or just with moveSupport?

-Since I have 2 attacher joints, how can I make the support animation to work with one attacher joint in particular?





Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 06.05.2016 07:37
Hi,

good to hear :)

xml seems to be OK, except the very high values for "solverIterationCount" on some components.


The attribute componentJointIndex works in every animation

I'm afraid you would need a custom script to make the animation react to only one specific attacherJoint

Cheers,
Emil

Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 09.05.2016 06:05
Hello Emil,
Is there any way to disable an attacherJoin ingame? Any attribute or something that can dettach an implemet from the tractor that are you on?

Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 09.05.2016 07:27
Hi,

one idea might be to rotate (and eventually translate) the attacherJoint, so that attaching is no longer possible.

Otherwise you could do a lot with scripts :)


Cheers,
Emil

Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 23.05.2016 15:31
Hello how are you?

The tool is working greate with your help.
Now I'm working in a set up of two main bodies (like the first one) articulated in the midle with 4 wheels each.
I got all working good but the problem is the limit of 6 component with wheels. So I make some of the wheels versatile on Y. It works, but the versatile wheels don't act naturally like the ones that depends of a rigid body. They are like "histerical" :D so my quiestion is, how can I make the versatil wheels look more "natural" and is there any way of change the limit of 6 components with wheels?

Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 24.05.2016 07:27
Hi,

I'm fine, hope you're doing good too!

Glad that you could make some progress.

Well, could try to have a look at this file:
http://ls-mods.de/scriptDocumentation.php?lua_file=vehicles/Vehicle

This function (line 4110):
function Vehicle:loadSpeedRotatingPartFromXML(speedRotatingPart, xmlFile, key)
is responsible for loading the speedRotatingParts.
Maybe you can figure out what attribute you can add to improve the behavior.

Well, line 2491 might be better suited for that:
...steeringAngle = Utils.getVersatileRotation(...)
Check what attributes are used by that function and if you can adjust some.

Cheers,
Emil





Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 23.06.2016 17:27
Hello
Still can't make it work well.
Don't know if you remember how my mod works, about the two modes: transportation and working, one transversal to the other and with two attacher joints
Since I'm trying now with two articulated main bodies, I'm struggling with the limit of 6 components with wheels.
Is there any way of increase that limit? Is it defined in one of the public script that maybe I could change and use as custom script?
Because if I use Y versatile wheels they tends to point to their Z axel. So they work freely but at the moment the tractor stops they come back to their original Z position.
I tried rotating the transform group that the wheels depends with the folding animation but the wheels still point to the original position Z axel.

Edit: Can I add a non related question? What determinates if the helper with a cultivator should make an U turn or a backward and forward turn? thanks!

Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 29.06.2016 05:11
Edit: Can I add a non related question? What determinates if the helper with a cultivator should make an U turn or a backward and forward turn? thanks!

Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 29.06.2016 08:04
Hi,

<aiForceTurnNoBackward value="true" />
is the attribute you are looking for.

What exact error message do you get?
" Error: Invalid components count ... "
In this case you have a invalid definition (aka an error) in your vehicle.xml

Actually I don't think that there is a limit to the number of components.

Cheers,
Emil


Elgranjerou (diego_gg111) 30.06.2016 02:01
Thanks a lot for your answer!

Here is a video of the project of the seeder with two main bodies:
https://youtu.be/0gIQsSJ8RS0

With just one body it works great. But with two bodies come the problems.

It should work with one rigid body for each wheel, totalizing 8 rigid bodies with wheels.

Then the error that I get is: " Error (physics): Adding to many rigid bodies to a vehicle. Maximum is 6."

As soon as I use 6 rigid bodies with wheels (and the other wheels with versatileYRot="true") the error disapears.

The problem as I described before is the versatileYRot wheels.
They works pointing always to their Z axel.
I mean, they rotate freely (not as freely as they were "phisyc" wheels) but as soon as the tractor stop they turn back to the Z axel.

Here is a video to show the wheels behavior:
https://youtu.be/qV-SdbvJ3kM


Emil Drefers (giants.edrefers) 30.06.2016 07:55
Hi,

the limitation concerning the rigid body count is somewhere in the (physics) engine, which means that no script will allow you to exceed that limitation.

You could create the whole machine out of two single machines.
Don't know if that is actually possible in the real world.
But when I see your sowing machine I could imagine that it is "detachable" in the middle, at the articulation joint/node.


Concerning the versatileYRot ...
you could try to use the speedRotatingParts for the visual representation of the wheels.
But I'm afraid that they have exactly the same problem.
In FS17 the versatileYRot will be improved, but not sure if the problem will be gone completly.


Cheers,
Emil





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